This is a record of an interview I conducted with Gavin Hastings, and of a talk he gave at the Cambridge Union. The interview, the talk and writing up the article all happened in the same evening which certainly added to the excitement! He had plenty to say for himself, some of it not exactly PC - read on to find out more...
Gavin Hastings, ex-Scotland and Lions captain and OBE (which he jokes stands for “Old Bastard from Edinburgh”) is widely considered one of the greatest rugby players of all time. This week, proudly sporting his Hawks Club tie, he came to the Cambridge Union to address members of the university where he spent two years.
I caught up with him to find out about his best memories of student days and his illustrious career, as well as his views on some of the most pressing issues facing the game he so obviously loves.
His fondness for Cambridge was immediately obvious. He described his time here as “the best two years of my life”. Having studied Land Economics at Paisley College of Technology, he came down to Cambridge to complete the second and third years of a Land Economy degree.
The picture he painted of being hugely excited, but at the same time in awe of his new surroundings, is one that any fresher could empathise with. It was when he arrived at Grange Road for his first rugby training session, he said, that he knew he’d made what he described as “the best decision of my life”.
Selected for the Varsity match in 1984, he was part of the Cambridge side that demolished Oxford 33-6 to record a fifth successive victory.
His performance was impressive enough to see him made captain for the following year. Unfortunately, the Light Blues couldn’t go on to record a record sixth consecutive win, losing 7-6 in a tight game. Defeat taught Hastings valuable lessons, however, that he said have “carried me through for the rest of my life.”
So how important is the Varsity match today? Here he was unequivocal that “for students, it remains as important as it has always been.” He acknowledged that its status in the calendar isn’t what it once was, but firmly believed that Oxford and Cambridge can still be “a very good breeding ground” for the stars of the future.
This, he believed, is only enhanced by the presence of international players within the squad, who can help young players to “understand what it takes to become a player of international standing.”
After his talk, he was asked how sport at Cambridge should be funded to ensure it continues to produce talented players. He expressed the hope that university sport in the UK will become “as big as it is in America”, while also suggesting that well-known alumni should play a greater role in financing sports programmes.
“We have to latch onto these people”, he stated, adding that “I would like nothing more than to write a big fat cheque”. Of course, “at this point in my career it’s not possible”.
Shortly after his Varsity disappointment, Hastings won his first cap for Scotland in the Five Nations tournament in February 1986. Here he played alongside his brother Scott, who he described as “as much a friend as a brother”. This proved to be the start of a ten-year international career that saw him win 61 caps for his country and score a record number of points for Scotland, a record that would not be surpassed until Chris Patterson broke it in 2008.
But what was his best moment? “From a very personal point of view”, he replied, “captaining the side that won in Paris for the first time in 26 years was my single proudest moment in a Scotland jersey”.
Hastings was to go on to wear not just the blue of Scotland but also the red of the British and Irish Lions. Having played in all three Tests in Australia in 1989, he was chosen to captain the side that toured New Zealand in 1993. Despite describing this as “the most challenging situation that I’d ever been put in”, he believed he was the right man for the job.
Few jobs can be more challenging than that of trying to pull together a disparate group of players from different countries and lead them to possibly the most fiercely competitive rugby nation on Earth. On the subject of captaincy, he soon learnt that “I wasn’t going to get on well with everybody”, and that worrying about this would have adversely affected his concentration. “I did a lot of growing up on that tour”, he reflected, showing the intense strain that players find themselves under in such situations.
At this point in the interview, he paused to consider the qualities a Lion needs. Mental toughness, he claimed, should be high on the list of requirements. “Some people aren’t mentally tough enough to cope”, he stated, also suggesting that in many cases the 35 players that make the grade at the start of a tour may no longer feature in the top choices by the end.
Given the pressure on these players, who did he think would be chosen to coach them on the 2013 tour? “I’ll be very surprised if the next Lions coach is not coaching an international team”, he replied, going on to add that “Andy Robinson will probably be in the frame”.
Asked during his talk whether he thought the Lions stood a realistic chance against the Southern Hemisphere teams, he replied that “It’s going to be incredibly difficult”. So how could we give them the best chance? His answer was simple: “We need to shorten the season to give players’ bodies a chance to recover”.
On this note, he also told me during our interview that he was worried about what shape players like Jonny Wilkinson, who have only ever played the game during the professional era, would be in fifteen years after their retirement.
Shortening the season wasn’t the only radical change he suggested to the professional game. Asked about the impact of professionalism on the game, he answered that while there have been huge improvements at the highest level, below that rugby has “lost its soul”. He lamented the loss of the rugby-watching culture he grew up with, and stated that much of the tradition and fun had “all but gone”.
His answer? For professionals, increase the size of the pitch to bring back the free-flowing game characteristic of the amateur era. And for everyone, make rugby a summer sport to increase enjoyment and get more young people involved.
He was optimistic about the impact of the 2012 London Olympics and the 2014 Glasgow Commonwealth Games, hoping that these will help sport to “become a bigger part of people’s lives”.
When asked during his talk about the global spread of rugby, he was confident that “Seven-a-side rugby is going to be the catalyst for spreading the game around the world”. He cited the ease of playing and understanding this form of the game as reasons why sevens players will become the “superstars” of rugby in a few years’ time.
However, Hastings also saw sevens serving another purpose. Asked by an audience member about the role of women in the sport, he replied that he was “not convinced that rugby is the best thing that women could do”. He went on to state that for him, watching women’s rugby was “not quite as exciting as watching the men’s game”.
His most controversial comments came when he stated that “The sport for women is rugby sevens”. And the reason he gave why sevens is the sport that will broaden the game’s appeal across national and gender divides? “Fifteen-a-side is too technical for a lot of countries and a lot of women”. I think it’s fair to say that a significant proportion of the university population would disagree.
So, how to sum up my evening with Gavin Hastings? Well, he certainly proved he wasn’t afraid of controversy. His revelations were frequently surprising, often entertaining and sometimes downright scandalous. One thing’s for certain – he certainly left us with plenty to talk about.